Really, McCoy!
I realize it’s a long gap between posts when readers send me links to records that have sold recently on eBay. It’s like a gentle reminder that you are still out there, which I appreciate. This link came to my in box yesterday from Aaron: McCoy Tyner, The Real McCoy, Blue Note 4264. This was an original mono Liberty pressing from the seller Carolina Soul. It was listed in VG+ condition for both the record and the cover. I’ve never purchased from them, but based on the prices they get and their descriptions of the records, I have a sense that they are pretty conservative with the grading. Is that true? In any case, this record sold for $336, with the following note from Aaron: “Hi Al, Not sure if you saw the latest auction for an original mono McCoy Tyner The Real McCoy but it brought back memories of your post from 2014 (Really, McCoy?) when it ‘sold for $171.05, quite a high price for a later Liberty.’” To Aaron and all: In hindsight, I probably misjudged the rarity of and interest in this record back in 2014, particularly the original mono version. According to Popsike, there have been many instances of The Real McCoy selling for more than $200, with a top price of $406.
In looking through my own Watchlist, I’m seeing several very high priced records that I was watching from a few weeks ago and failed to include in posts on Jazz Collector. I feel like I should go back because the prices seem support the idea of some new market dynamics, perhaps inspired by the pandemic, perhaps by Instagram, perhaps by a combination of these and other forces. Recent jazz vinyl sales include:
Kenny Dorham, Afro-Cuban, Blue Note 1535. This was an original Lexington Avenue Pressing. The record was listed in M- condition and the cover was VG. The final price was $3,700.
Lee Morgan, Candy, Blue Note 1595. This was an original West 63rd Street pressing that was listed in M- condition for both the record and the cover. The final price was $3,250.
Curtis Fuller, Bluesette, Savoy 12141. This was an original red label promo copy. The record was listed in Ex condition (VG+) and the cover was just VG. The final price was $1,228.
Hank Mobley, Soul Station, Blue Note 4031. This was an original West 63rd Street pressing. The record was listed in VG+ condition, and the cover was probably VG- with an ugly tape mark along the entire length of the back. The final price was $1,418.82.
Those top classic Blue Notes are officially out of reach to all but the ultra-wealthy on the open market. Thankfully, there are tons of outstanding records available for fractions of a percent of that cost!
How long before Sotheby’s has a vinyl appraiser on hand and auctions a pristine 1568 with its Rembrandts and Picassos?
Meanwhile, almost all of Joe Henderson’s amazing Milestone LPs are available for less than a hundo each.
I wouldn’t call Carolina Soul’s grading conservative, but they are usually spot on. If it’s graded VG, you’ll get a VG.
FunkYou, the other big seller of soul and jazz, is a tad more conservative. Their VG is usually a VG+. I bought a first pressing of Moanin’ from them years ago for cheap, because I needed a cover upgrade. It was graded VG- and came as a solid VG+, which was a pleasant surprise.
Wasn’t it like a year ago that Candy was a solid $1500 LP, tops?
To my mind ”Candy” in top condition has gone for over $2000 for over a decade, at least.
As for BLP 1535 I rather own the original 10” version. Feels more cohesive. The 12” feels like two different albums to me. Not worth what it commands compared to the 10”.
Candy was selling for ~$3K in 2015 and first went over $2K in 2008. Of course these are just sales recorded in Popsike, which misses Buy It Now, private auctions, some eBay auctions, etc.
Totally off the topic, but I am amazed at the way the reissue industry has gone insane over the last year or two. Reissues of classic jazz records sell out in minutes, and not all of them are Blue Note titles. Because speculators (flippers) are heavily involved, its a bit tricky to assess the real level of interest among music lovers. In many cases, these reissues will sound superior to original pressings. What effect is all of this having on our market?
Say Fredrik, and all other interested parties. I always felt that 10″ originals were the real 1st pressings on vinyl. Over the years their value has dropped in comparison to the 12″ pressing. I don’t understand why.
What say you ?
Art,
Just a guess, but I think a lot of little things contribute. 1) 10″ are all but impossible to find in good shape now. 2) The 12″ versions have that same vintage ‘feel’, like on Blue Note they are still Lex pressings. 3) The 12″ often have the complete 10″ plus new tracks. 4) Odd though it sounds, 10″ are harder to satisfyingly store, at least for me.
Seeing these prices and the way the record market seems to be going, I’m glad I don’t collect Jazz lps anymore.
And I can’t help but recall the consternation of customers when I had my record store and tried to get $19.99 for a Liberty copy of a Lee Morgan Blue Note.
Wonder what they’re thinking now.
Art, I’m personally more into the 12” format. I still dig the 10” format but I think the larger format is more for me, and the kind of jazz and artists I enjoy the most now is on 12”. But, if the original release of the tunes was on a 10” and I had the choice between that and a 12” with the same material released later, I would opt for the 10”, like I did with Afro-Cuban.
Regarding 10” dropping in value compared to their 12” counterpart (same material); I’m not sure. Good points by Gregory the Fish and I agree. Maybe 12” are easier to find clean and therefor commands higher prices? Different/more appealing art work? Better pressings? The larger format itself is maybe more familiar for many and easier to file together with the rest of your 12” albums, as 12” is more common?
Replying to all regarding the 25/30 cm question. I published a paper on the subject on LJC. The conclusion is that sometimes the ten inch original is more complete than the 12″ reissue. I give the example of Clifford Brown on Blue Note 1526. The two ten inchers could not be fitted into one twelve incher, so tracks got lost. Completists cannot but chase the originals in 10″ format.
But, there are many examples of the 12″ being more complete with extra unissued material. It must be admitted though that in general the initial choice to reject takes was mostly justified, the bombastic ’newly discovered takes’ being just a marketing ploy.
I for one stick to my 10″ originals, they perfectly reflect the era.
Jazz Record Center sold a copy of The Real McCoy for $810 in June 2020. I remember this very vividly because it made me question whether I wanted to collect original Blue Note pressings anymore. I decided CDs are fine.
The JRC listing didn’t contain the album title in the listing so you have to search Popsike using “Blue Note 4264”. Here is the Popsike link:
https://www.popsike.com/McCoy-Tyner-on-Blue-Note-4264/293594419254.html
I don’t collect Blue Notes because of the price, although I do have a handful of titles I look out for.
Carolina Soul has gotten better. I used to buy a lot from them, but the grading was very inconsistent. In the last year or so it has gotten better. The previous inconsistency has kept me away to some degree (about two years ago they didn’t like me asking for returns for vg records graded vg++, and in my mind two grades off is too much), but the last few I’ve purchased have been right on, like @DJ Pari said. I think they do lots of consignment so they get lots of stock. Because of their visibility very little goes under the radar so getting a deal from them is unlikely.
I offered a guy in New Jersey $ 1800 for a NM candy 20 years ago- he said no way
Probably not the place for such, however Bob Koester’s store, Jazz Record Mart got me started in Jazz back in 1964/65. Thus this bit of news, I heard he made the transition today, Wednesday May 12th, 2021. Surely the end of an era.
That’s sad news about Bob. I saw him a few years ago and he didn’t look well, but we still had a good chat and he told some old stories, as he liked to do sometimes. He put out a lot of good stuff on Delmark!
Sad about Bob’s passing. And I find i incredible that as being a Swedish guy met and spoke briefly to him at his old store in Chicago. Buying mostly CD’s in those days it was heaven. Later it was very hard to find any collectable vinyl in the store. Did they do eBay?
their used section got hit hard every day, I think part of it was just the nature of digging in Chicago. Plus, employees would buy stuff before it hit the racks. Typical record store. I got some okay things there but always did better with sealed stock. Bought sealed copies of the Horace Tapscott Nimbus records (probably should’ve bought/kept more of the non-Tapscott Nimbus, even though I wasn’t all that into those other records at the time), Japanese Toshiba BNs, Delmarks of course, and weird random things as well.
Around 2000 I worked near the Jazz Record Mart and would stop in with some regularity. I remember seeing lots of Japanese pressings and 70s budget reissues, but never anything really collectible.
Every interesting collectible LP I bought at JRM over the years was from the beater new arrivals bin in the back of the store and was cheap, not the “collectible” bins in the front, where wildly overpriced records sat for years. Always an adventure, and I got some real treasures, but it was extremely hit-or-miss.