Tracking Some Prestige Jazz Vinyl
We have an eye on some Prestige jazz vinyl on eBay. Despite the high price of the Jackie’s Pal we noted yesterday, it seems the disparity between prices on original Blue Notes versus original Prestiges seems to be getting wider. Here are some of the ones we’re watching:
Donald Byrd, Art Farmer, Idrees Sulieman, Three Trumpets, Prestige 7092. This is an original New York pressing. The record is in M- condition and the cover sounds to be VG++ as we would rate it. The starting price is around $170 and there are no bids.
This one is of a similar vintage but from a different seller: Art Farmer and Donald Byrd, Two Trumpets, Prestige 7062. This is also an original yellow-label New York pressing. The record is M- and the cover is VG+. The start price is $150 and, again, there are no bidders. There’s a $200 buy-it-now price on this, which would seem pretty reasonable to me.
Olio, Prestige 7084. This is an album featuring
Thad Jones, Frank Wess, Teddy Charles, Mal Waldron, Doug Watkins and an early Elvin Jones. This copy is listed in M- condition for both the record and the cover. It is currently at around $100 and there are bidders, so it will sell. This one may not sell, with a start price of $100 and a little more than a day to go on the bidding: Oliver Nelson, Takin’ Care of Business, New Jazz 8233. This is an original deep-groove purple label pressing that looks to be in M- condition.
Interesting Observation.
Question: Were the number of records presseed relatively the same between Blue Note and Prestige? Just trying to understand the value of the BN brand from a market price perspective.
Dave: this has been a topic of discussion for a long while and the conclusion was that there is no logical explanation to the phenomenon: it is the same music, the same engineer, the same period of production, and, in principle, the same number of copies pressed initially.
The only reason I can find for Blue Note’s premium in the market is that its value is a result of the smart marketing by Cuscuna for the Mosaic label, which made the Blue Note top league, and, its fall out in Japan. The Japanese are in this Blue Note cult and push prices up.
From an artistic point of view, for the art work of the covers, I for one, find the two Reid Miles covers of 3 Trumpets and OLIO more imaginative than the photo covers of Blue Note by Wolff. But this a very personal opinion.
dave; the other reason could be that ALL of the BN-covers AND BN-backsides have the same look, feel and design. ( roughly BN1500-4300)
For those who collect jazz records not only for the music but also for the feel and design this could be important.
From that perspective it is more rewarding to get all the BN albums in one’s collection than it is for the Prestiges: they have no unity in lay-out and numbering. I , as a collector and photographer myself , see Quality in the fact that BN dared to choose one direction, and trusted the feeling they had. Therefore i think the appereances of the BN’s are legendary, thanks to Wolff, Lion, reid miles)
Ofcourse, this says nothing about the music, but
, to keep the discussion alive, i would say: Blue Notes are less ‘ sloppy’ in their music and appearance!
I think Prestige had a hint of west-coast feeling in lot’s of their albums.. in BN i hear more NY, but that could be romantacized..)
The ‘OLIO cover is a beauty by the way, so is the music on it.
my understanding is Prestige really didn’t allow for much rehearsal or none at all and the Blue Note dates were most of the time done with suficient rehearsal time allowed.
this may account for more involving arrangements on the Blue NOte records that has made them more sought after than the Prestige which often were blowing dates.
my comment above is based on an interview with Jackie Mclean in which he addressed the difference between recording for the two companies.
I know, this is the common story launched by Cuscuna, which may even be true for McLean by the way. But, at the same time, there are so many examples to refute this thesis.
Prestige recorded many sessions which were no impromptu affairs:
the Gerry Mulligan tentet;
the MJQ;
the John Coltrane sextet;
the Gil Mellé groups (3 albums);
the Mal Waldron albums;
the Jimmy Raney albums;
the Konitz/Tristano sides;
etc. etc.
All examples of a finesse in preparation, which often surpasses the average Blue Note effort.
i think one can say that musically the two labels where at the same high level… you could even argue that BN is often more of the same…Mayby there is also a generation gap somewhere arround.. I have the feeling that people who did not actualy lived in the ’50 and ’60 do prefer the blue note music al bit more (generalrisation!) because it has a “harder’ swing/ beat…
I myself started that way, but the more you listen the more you get drawn to prestige… as if it is more about the music instead of swing /funk or hipness..
(altough for the reasons mentioned above in this page, i collect more BN)
Maarten: that is a very interesting observation you made there. It may indeed be a matter of generations, for the reasons you invoke.
Also, there is alot more brand awareness of Blue Note relative to other labels especially among current generations. I bet 10 times more people have heard of BN v. Prestige. Plus BN is still a viable label today as well as there are BN jazz clubs around the world that although not affiliated with the label, keep the name in the forefront. While this explains the general public perception, I am still not sure why a collector would pay that much more for the same product on BN versus Prestige.
I guess that’s why some people pay $3 for a box Kleenex while others pay $1 for a box of facial tissues.
Some times, it is nice to get the Kleenex,… pretty flowers,… and scented…… but great discussion, my girlfriend would be curled up sleeping by now if i brought up this topic, so it is nice to read this forum and hear the debate.
For me, the Blue Note legacy, is in part to the uniformity of it. In both appearance and quality . You know what your getting with a 1500 series BN. I used to collect baseball and hockey cards, and BN’s are very similar and addicting. Those simple serial numbers really suck you in, especially once they go to the number in the note.
1500 series is like the first set, then 4000’s then the girls and cars in the 4100’s. Once you start, you suddenly care about Art Taylor and Solomom Illori. There is less desire to hear the lesser known Prestige guys cos’ they arent tied together visually.
Lastly the backs of the BN’s are like baseball cards with info, pics, checklists etc. Glossy front, matte back…. Freakin Expensive New York Jazz lp trading cards…..3700$ Mobley for your 2400 Morgan, and your 800$ Jimmy Smith.
weren’t Blue Note pressings higher quality also because of the labels quality controls?